02-26-2007, 09:21 AM
Hello friends.  Late last night, I came to realize that what we are experiencing here is two diametrically opposed views that cannot be reconciled, UNLESS one substantially compromises the core of their beliefs.  While I admire Kenny ABSOLUTELY and do consider him to be a good friend, at THIS POINT, I cannot pull the trigger and join this organization.  Why?
In my view, an organization already exists for this purpose and was designed 2000 years ago.  It was conceived LONG before that, and has taken many thousands of years to come into fruition... and still has much to do.  This organization is known as the Church of Israel's Messiah... Jesus Christ.  :)  As with ANY organization, over the years... and at various times... corruption has sought to end it.  But it did not succeed.  And the world increasingly will hate this Church (and the nation of Israel), and try to destroy them... but it will fail, just as the previous attempts in human history.
A world under the reign of that Messiah WILL BE the Ideal World that you seek.  But if you choose to reject it, then the Ideal will always elude you.  From Revelation 21:3-8 (after the Wrath is completed and Jesus brief WAR against the armies of the world is over):  And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them.  They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God.  He will wipe EVERY tear from their eyes.  There will be NO MORE death or mourning or crying or pain, for the OLD ORDER of things has passed away.  He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making everything new!"  Then he said, "Write this down, for these words are TRUSTWORTHY and TRUE."  He said to me, "It is DONE.  I am the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End.  To him who is THIRSTY I will give to drink without COST from the spring of the water of LIFE.  He who overcomes will inherit ALL THIS, and I will be his God and he will be my son.  But the cowardly, the UNBELIEVING, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars - their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur.  This is the second death." ÂÂ
There is much more about this place written... "they will beat their swords into plowshares," "neither will they learn war anymore," etc...  The Bible addresses all of your proposed credos, and provides a solution.  But to find a world where that solution exists, one must  submit to God and accept his ONLY method of salvation and forgiveness.  As Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life... no one comes to the Father, but through me."  I encourage anyone who might read this in the future to simply say silently with your lips, "Jesus, if you are real, come into my heart right now and PROVE It to me.  I accept that I have something inside that compels me to sin and act apart from what I know to be right by conscience, and I ask that your sacrifice and blood atone for my sin.  Thank you for dying for me!"  Then find a GOOD church... not a cult... not one stuck in centuries of empty tradition... where the Bible is preached and spoken and studied, and people are seeking to change the world and help people according to God's ways and plan.  The Church, by design is much more successful in helping those who need it, instead of government.
The problem is, that most flat-out reject this idea.  They, like John on this board, have no respect for the God of the Bible and would never dream of submitting to Him.  (Okay... maybe John is a little more angry than most at this God... but whether a little or a lot... there is no real difference.  Rejection is rejection).  At the end of days, the Bible speaks that the sun will become very hot... true Global Warming!  :)  Quote from Rev 16:8  "The fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and the sun was given the power to scorch people with fire.  They were seared by the intense heat and the cursed the name of God, who had control over these plagues.  BUT THEY REFUSED TO REPENT AND GLORIFY HIM."  This shows that even when the Wrath of God is poured out and there is convincing EVIDENCE that this God exists, there will be those like John (although I hope John would submit before then) who will continue to shake their fist at God out of principle... and spite.  Jesus said that "Just as the world hated me, it will hate you" because the world hates God.  (Although they LOVE the gods of this world).
So groups, such as IWF, are created to bring about a SECULAR or "progressive" solution to the world's problems.  (I know that in Kenny's case, his idea is based on only GOOD intentions and motivations!  He sees the world, and it appears to be a farked up mess).  And as I have observed, almost all of these solutions have a liberal/socialist slant.  AND these groups tend to harbor those who have no respect and usually a deep hatred for anything leaning right/conservative/religious! ÂÂ
So really, when the two views try to combine, those who are religious are the ones who must compromise their beliefs in order to be compatible to the secular solution.  If they don't, then they are ridiculed... if not publicly, then inside of the other members' private thoughts, because those who are secular will always believe they are more enlightened than those who choose to believe superstitiously in an unseen God. ÂÂ
So, I've realized that if the time is growing short for this planet before the end of the current age and the beginning of the next one, where would it be most profitable for me to focus my efforts????  (This is indeed the most IMPORTANT question for a follower of Jesus Christ in circumstances such as this). ÂÂ
Would it be most fruitful if I focus my time and energies into an organization such as IWF who seeks a secular solution to the world's problems, and believes God is not necessary (but welcome if you are inferior and believe in such a rudimentary concept) to solve them?  That human beings can solve these problems on their own and that Evil is not an insurmountable force beyond which human beings cannot triumph?  That human beings are not corrupt at their core and do not need to be saved and transformed by the God of the Bible?  That all religions and belief systems are equal in the eyes of man, and that one particular one is no more correct than the next?  Etc... etc... etc...
OR, should I focus my time and energies into the solution I find in the pages of the Bible... which I know to be true and which I have experienced the miraculous in my life MANY times to confirm this to me?  Especially since the solution to the world's problems is so easily laid out and explained in it's pages... and the picture of the world AFTER this solution is explained so beautifully and briefly that one realizes it is so indescribable that we cannot even comprehend it at this time???  And the Church's goal is to tell this story to as many people as possible and help them find their way into the True Ideal World, by God's help, to save them from the Wrath that is coming on those who refuse to submit to the God who created them and instead choose to worship idols, false concepts and THEMSELVES.
How I wish I could write on this board and it would change the mind of John or Mike or many others.  Perhaps it could?  One soul is so valuable that it would be worth spending my WHOLE LIFE typing and convincing John to submit to this wonderful and amazing God IF such efforts were successful and he became a member of the Kingdom of God.  But from past experience, it seems such arguments always lead to nowhere and are fruitless.  And there are SO MANY lost and hurting people in the world who need this message!  And better yet, many of them are HUNGRY and willing to understand and accept this message, and have NOT HARDENED THEIR HEARTS towards God as it appears John has.  To live in such a place is so dangerous, and I do not envy anyone who chooses it.
So Kenny, my friend... I wholeheartedly admire you as a person and I KNOW your intentions are solely good.  As I mentioned, I would LOVE for you to come over to the mountains and camp once this summer!  You have a brilliant mind, and I would thoroughly enjoy sitting by the campfire and debating/talking until the sun comes up as I have with others many times!
But Kenny, you also remember where I stand on these things.  I have chosen to believe in the Rider on the White Horse, and as silly as it seems to those who are secular, I am waiting on HIM to come and create that Ideal World, because I realize that any movement created by man is doomed to failure, because man is corrupt.  (I mean Kenny... you haven't been successful in your battles against pizza, beer and unhealthy lifestyle as of yet, because you battle desires that are unseen... how can you expect to be victorious against evil powers MUCH stronger than even the desires of the flesh that seek to control the world?) :) There IS that which is Evil, and to fight against it in our own strength is Futile.  We DO need a god... THE God to be victorious.  We cannot take a world he created, AND WE CORRUPTED by choosing Sin instead of obedience, and try to fix it according to OUR plan... instead of accepting his ONLY plan to restore it to what it was designed to be.
And to those who are believers in Christ who have been convinced that it is possible to mingle and mix with other religions and belief systems in order to bring about a better world... that is just the repackaging of an old lie.  You will always, in the end, be expected to change your views, because they are ALWAYS in opposition to all others.  That's the way God designed it to be.  :)  Don't shoot the messenger.
I will choose to focus my energies elsewhere, because I must.  I do not ridicule your endeavors... I simply offer my opinion as to why it will not succeed.  And when it does not succeed, it is not because of YOU.
I will stop by on occasion, because I am interested in how far a spark of an idea in one person's head can snowball.  :)  And I wish, for my sake, that you (Kenny) will come to accept this Messiah, and be my friend Forever. ÂÂ
Doug
In my view, an organization already exists for this purpose and was designed 2000 years ago.  It was conceived LONG before that, and has taken many thousands of years to come into fruition... and still has much to do.  This organization is known as the Church of Israel's Messiah... Jesus Christ.  :)  As with ANY organization, over the years... and at various times... corruption has sought to end it.  But it did not succeed.  And the world increasingly will hate this Church (and the nation of Israel), and try to destroy them... but it will fail, just as the previous attempts in human history.
A world under the reign of that Messiah WILL BE the Ideal World that you seek.  But if you choose to reject it, then the Ideal will always elude you.  From Revelation 21:3-8 (after the Wrath is completed and Jesus brief WAR against the armies of the world is over):  And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them.  They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God.  He will wipe EVERY tear from their eyes.  There will be NO MORE death or mourning or crying or pain, for the OLD ORDER of things has passed away.  He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making everything new!"  Then he said, "Write this down, for these words are TRUSTWORTHY and TRUE."  He said to me, "It is DONE.  I am the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End.  To him who is THIRSTY I will give to drink without COST from the spring of the water of LIFE.  He who overcomes will inherit ALL THIS, and I will be his God and he will be my son.  But the cowardly, the UNBELIEVING, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars - their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur.  This is the second death." ÂÂ
There is much more about this place written... "they will beat their swords into plowshares," "neither will they learn war anymore," etc...  The Bible addresses all of your proposed credos, and provides a solution.  But to find a world where that solution exists, one must  submit to God and accept his ONLY method of salvation and forgiveness.  As Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life... no one comes to the Father, but through me."  I encourage anyone who might read this in the future to simply say silently with your lips, "Jesus, if you are real, come into my heart right now and PROVE It to me.  I accept that I have something inside that compels me to sin and act apart from what I know to be right by conscience, and I ask that your sacrifice and blood atone for my sin.  Thank you for dying for me!"  Then find a GOOD church... not a cult... not one stuck in centuries of empty tradition... where the Bible is preached and spoken and studied, and people are seeking to change the world and help people according to God's ways and plan.  The Church, by design is much more successful in helping those who need it, instead of government.
The problem is, that most flat-out reject this idea.  They, like John on this board, have no respect for the God of the Bible and would never dream of submitting to Him.  (Okay... maybe John is a little more angry than most at this God... but whether a little or a lot... there is no real difference.  Rejection is rejection).  At the end of days, the Bible speaks that the sun will become very hot... true Global Warming!  :)  Quote from Rev 16:8  "The fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and the sun was given the power to scorch people with fire.  They were seared by the intense heat and the cursed the name of God, who had control over these plagues.  BUT THEY REFUSED TO REPENT AND GLORIFY HIM."  This shows that even when the Wrath of God is poured out and there is convincing EVIDENCE that this God exists, there will be those like John (although I hope John would submit before then) who will continue to shake their fist at God out of principle... and spite.  Jesus said that "Just as the world hated me, it will hate you" because the world hates God.  (Although they LOVE the gods of this world).
So groups, such as IWF, are created to bring about a SECULAR or "progressive" solution to the world's problems.  (I know that in Kenny's case, his idea is based on only GOOD intentions and motivations!  He sees the world, and it appears to be a farked up mess).  And as I have observed, almost all of these solutions have a liberal/socialist slant.  AND these groups tend to harbor those who have no respect and usually a deep hatred for anything leaning right/conservative/religious! ÂÂ
So really, when the two views try to combine, those who are religious are the ones who must compromise their beliefs in order to be compatible to the secular solution.  If they don't, then they are ridiculed... if not publicly, then inside of the other members' private thoughts, because those who are secular will always believe they are more enlightened than those who choose to believe superstitiously in an unseen God. ÂÂ
So, I've realized that if the time is growing short for this planet before the end of the current age and the beginning of the next one, where would it be most profitable for me to focus my efforts????  (This is indeed the most IMPORTANT question for a follower of Jesus Christ in circumstances such as this). ÂÂ
Would it be most fruitful if I focus my time and energies into an organization such as IWF who seeks a secular solution to the world's problems, and believes God is not necessary (but welcome if you are inferior and believe in such a rudimentary concept) to solve them?  That human beings can solve these problems on their own and that Evil is not an insurmountable force beyond which human beings cannot triumph?  That human beings are not corrupt at their core and do not need to be saved and transformed by the God of the Bible?  That all religions and belief systems are equal in the eyes of man, and that one particular one is no more correct than the next?  Etc... etc... etc...
OR, should I focus my time and energies into the solution I find in the pages of the Bible... which I know to be true and which I have experienced the miraculous in my life MANY times to confirm this to me?  Especially since the solution to the world's problems is so easily laid out and explained in it's pages... and the picture of the world AFTER this solution is explained so beautifully and briefly that one realizes it is so indescribable that we cannot even comprehend it at this time???  And the Church's goal is to tell this story to as many people as possible and help them find their way into the True Ideal World, by God's help, to save them from the Wrath that is coming on those who refuse to submit to the God who created them and instead choose to worship idols, false concepts and THEMSELVES.
How I wish I could write on this board and it would change the mind of John or Mike or many others.  Perhaps it could?  One soul is so valuable that it would be worth spending my WHOLE LIFE typing and convincing John to submit to this wonderful and amazing God IF such efforts were successful and he became a member of the Kingdom of God.  But from past experience, it seems such arguments always lead to nowhere and are fruitless.  And there are SO MANY lost and hurting people in the world who need this message!  And better yet, many of them are HUNGRY and willing to understand and accept this message, and have NOT HARDENED THEIR HEARTS towards God as it appears John has.  To live in such a place is so dangerous, and I do not envy anyone who chooses it.
So Kenny, my friend... I wholeheartedly admire you as a person and I KNOW your intentions are solely good.  As I mentioned, I would LOVE for you to come over to the mountains and camp once this summer!  You have a brilliant mind, and I would thoroughly enjoy sitting by the campfire and debating/talking until the sun comes up as I have with others many times!
But Kenny, you also remember where I stand on these things.  I have chosen to believe in the Rider on the White Horse, and as silly as it seems to those who are secular, I am waiting on HIM to come and create that Ideal World, because I realize that any movement created by man is doomed to failure, because man is corrupt.  (I mean Kenny... you haven't been successful in your battles against pizza, beer and unhealthy lifestyle as of yet, because you battle desires that are unseen... how can you expect to be victorious against evil powers MUCH stronger than even the desires of the flesh that seek to control the world?) :) There IS that which is Evil, and to fight against it in our own strength is Futile.  We DO need a god... THE God to be victorious.  We cannot take a world he created, AND WE CORRUPTED by choosing Sin instead of obedience, and try to fix it according to OUR plan... instead of accepting his ONLY plan to restore it to what it was designed to be.
And to those who are believers in Christ who have been convinced that it is possible to mingle and mix with other religions and belief systems in order to bring about a better world... that is just the repackaging of an old lie.  You will always, in the end, be expected to change your views, because they are ALWAYS in opposition to all others.  That's the way God designed it to be.  :)  Don't shoot the messenger.
I will choose to focus my energies elsewhere, because I must.  I do not ridicule your endeavors... I simply offer my opinion as to why it will not succeed.  And when it does not succeed, it is not because of YOU.
I will stop by on occasion, because I am interested in how far a spark of an idea in one person's head can snowball.  :)  And I wish, for my sake, that you (Kenny) will come to accept this Messiah, and be my friend Forever. ÂÂ
Doug